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Do your job or get out. Pass the CR and Debt legislation ACA and Conference Time to pay our debts. The time is right.

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29 comments

1 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 4:55:15am

Your comments here led me to other of your Internet postings, and you are not a common troll. You are either a true believer who has collected all the Tea Party talking points, or you are a much better troll than our usual visitors.

You are wrong about linking your sources—I’ve been mainstream here for 5 years and I post links to arguable statements of fact. It’s what we do if we want to be taken seriously.

2 francis  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 5:02:18am

re: #1 Decatur Deb

I am not sure if I link my resources correctly, but I will keep trying thank you.

3 Jayleia  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 5:03:53am

I still disagree with you on many levels (taxation, for example), but you’re handling this rather nicely, a sadly underused ability on these internets, so I will try to adjust my behavior.

However, providing links is considered good form in internet debate, not always because of a lack of trust, but it also helps the other party understand your position better, as they will have the same information you have. They may come to a different conclusion, but at least you’re both starting with knowing as much of the relevant information as you both can provide.

4 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 5:04:11am

re: #2 francis

Just have the source open on another tab, ‘copy’ the url, return to your comment block, and ‘paste’ it in.

5 francis  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 6:03:59am

re: #3 Jayleia

Thank you, that’s what it is all about exchange of ideas.

6 francis  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 6:04:22am

re: #4 Decatur Deb
Thank you again.

7 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 7:44:00am

Links are important to post because opinion must be based in an analysis of facts. Not dogma.

8 SteveMcGazi  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 9:51:47am

It’s a tease to take you seriously until you inevitably try to sound reasonable when discussing tax hikes and their impact on lower and middle class families. It’s pretty common knowledge that for the last decade, taxes have been at their lowest levels in generations. Yet the disparity in the “blessings of liberty” just gets wider and wider. Trickle down doesn’t work. It never worked. You can try to say that your philosophy is not really “trickle down”, or try to argue that a rising tide raises all boats, but the simple fact is that real wages are flat and productivity is at all time high levels. George H. Bush is a brilliant man and he knew it was “Voodoo economics.” So take your phony sincerity, roll it up into a little ball and shove it.

9 alinuxguru  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 9:53:15am

This is the equivalent of pissing on the rug of someone who just invited you into their home.

10 francis  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 10:31:06am

re: #8 SteveMcGazi

For an intelligent man you should realize the best way to raise revenue is to create jobs, increase the number of paychecks, you increase revenue. That is what helped Clinton. He also refinance the national debt as interest went down. You raise the minimum wage, you raise revenue in s/s and Medicare and possibly the general fund. So, Steve if you are a good business person, you would want to have a strong revenue flow. If we stop shipping jobs out of the country, that would help also. Production is high because machines are taking the place of people, that is why it is important to educate the poor and lower class so they can move into the hi tech jobs. Don’t you ever question my sincerity until you walked in my shoes.

11 francis  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 10:32:18am

re: #9 alinuxguru

Has someone pissed on your Rug?

12 francis  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 10:39:40am

re: #7 Amory Blaine

When the price of a gallon of gas goes up, who does it affect the most, the rich man or the poor man? Anytime you raise taxes it is the same as raising the price of gas, everything follows it up. Rich people don’t make rich people rich, poor and middle class people do.

13 blueraven  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 11:33:58am

re: #12 francis

When the price of a gallon of gas goes up, who does it affect the most, the rich man or the poor man? Anytime you raise taxes it is the same as raising the price of gas, everything follows it up. Rich people don’t make rich people rich, poor and middle class people do.

That’s right, and the middle class is disappearing. Do you think Obama has control over gas prices?
You say above we should raise the minimum wage. Isn’t that what the president wants? But the republicans will never allow it.

You raise the minimum wage, you raise revenue in s/s and Medicare and possibly the general fund. So, Steve if you are a good business person, you would want to have a strong revenue flow. If we stop shipping jobs out of the country, that would help also.

No one is raising taxes on the middle class. The only tax increase is on high income, back close to the levels from the 90s Clinton era which you praise.

Incentives to stop shipping jobs overseas is also an Obama policy. So it sounds like you agree with President Obama’s policy, but for some reason you continue to bash him. Makes one wonder why.

14 francis  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 12:12:34pm

re: #13 blueraven

Yes he does have some control over gas prices, his latest statement is what raised the price of gas. He could have used the same strategy he used with Ben Laden, kept it quiet. Cut a deal with the keystone pipeline for cheap oil for 10 years or have the country become a major buyer, instead of the banks getting fat on the profits. Jobs go up revenues go up. Stabilize the price of gas, you stabilize the price of food and energy. The poor benefit from that. I question his leadership skills and will keep bashing him until he puts the poor first and his party second. It is all about votes, not helping the poor and middle class.

15 francis  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 12:20:51pm

re: #13 blueraven

In Obamascare, if you don’t purchase the insurance the 1st year tax is 95.00, the second year you don’t buy is 285.00 and it continues to rise. It is a tax because the Supreme Court passed it as a tax. The original context stated it was a penalty and when they went before the Supreme Court they changed it to a tax. Why isn’t he closing the loopholes on Exxon and Apple? It is all about leadership.

16 blueraven  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 12:50:33pm

re: #14 francis

Yes he does have some control over gas prices, his latest statement is what raised the price of gas. He could have used the same strategy he used with Ben Laden, kept it quiet. Cut a deal with the keystone pipeline for cheap oil for 10 years or have the country become a major buyer, instead of the banks getting fat on the profits. Jobs go up revenues go up. Stabilize the price of gas, you stabilize the price of food and energy. The poor benefit from that. I question his leadership skills and will keep bashing him until he puts the poor first and his party second. It is all about votes, not helping the poor and middle class.

What statement would that be? Keystone pipeline will not reduce the price of gas. It is a world market.
Which statement did George Bush make that caused the highest gas prices ever in the summer of 2008?


politifact.com

re: #15 francis

In Obamascare, if you don’t purchase the insurance the 1st year tax is 95.00, the second year you don’t buy is 285.00 and it continues to rise. It is a tax because the Supreme Court passed it as a tax. The original context stated it was a penalty and when they went before the Supreme Court they changed it to a tax. Why isn’t he closing the loopholes on Exxon and Apple? It is all about leadership.

Are you serious? Your constant use of Obamascare is childish to say the least. Low income people will get subsidies to offset the price of health insurance in the private market. One trip to the emergency with a serious condition can bankrupt low income families.
The supreme court can label it a tax all they want…it is a fine, in that only those who dont purchase insurance will pay it.

17 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 1:18:26pm

re: #10 francis

You say this:

You raise the minimum wage, you raise revenue in s/s and Medicare and possibly the general fund.

Then you say this:

The rich will always be rich and the poor and middle class will always suffer from any tax increase. The cost always go downhill and very seldom are absorbed at the top.

Contradiction?

18 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 1:20:20pm

The tax hikes on the rich will explicitly not hurt the middle class and poor more than the rich. You can tell this because they’re tax hikes on the rich, not on the middle class or the poor.

19 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 1:21:44pm

re: #15 francis

I am really, really happy with the insurance I’m going to be getting through the exchange here in NYC. It is an amazingly good plan, one that reminds me of the way insurance plans used to be before they started blowing the market up.

20 klys  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 1:26:37pm

re: #19 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I am really, really happy with the insurance I’m going to be getting through the exchange here in NYC. It is an amazingly good plan, one that reminds me of the way insurance plans used to be before they started blowing the market up.

I am really looking forward to see what will happen with the exchanges. They mean things like my father being able to consider retiring from his white-collar job which has been working him 60+ hours a week without any acknowledgement and being able to afford health insurance for himself and my mom - plus my sisters while the job market hopefully stabilizes. It means the possibility of being able to afford health insurance when I take time to be with my husband before the potential of medical issues would limit our ability to travel - one of the things we love to do. It means flexibility to explore self-employment opportunities, or being a contractor and working remotely without worrying that I will be unable to get health insurance at a price I can afford.

So every comment I hear about it being great makes me more and more hopeful that although this wasn’t what I was looking for (single-payer), this will be something that will hopefully work so much better than what we have right now.

Also, francis’ cognitive dissonance is much easier to deal with while tipsy.

21 francis  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 3:17:16pm

re: #17 Amory Blaine

Not a contradiction. They will suffer because prices will go up. You raise taxes on people that run large corporations and their profits they will raise the cost of doing business and that gets passed on to the consumer, it all goes down hill. You increase the minimum wage and the fixed deductions will raise more money for s/s and Medicare. example, employee share of s/s is apx 7%. employees making 300.00 pay 21.00 and employees making 400.00 pay 28.00. Raise the min wage raise the revenue. Business passes their cost on to consumers.

22 blueraven  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 3:41:25pm

re: #21 francis

Not a contradiction. They will suffer because prices will go up. You raise taxes on people that run large corporations and their profits they will raise the cost of doing business and that gets passed on to the consumer, it all goes down hill. You increase the minimum wage and the fixed deductions will raise more money for s/s and Medicare. example, employee share of s/s is apx 7%. employees making 300.00 pay 21.00 and employees making 400.00 pay 28.00. Raise the min wage raise the revenue. Business passes their cost on to consumers.

So they pass their tax cost down, but not their increased labor cost?
You make no sense francis.

23 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 3:52:48pm

re: #21 francis

Not a contradiction. They will suffer because prices will go up. You raise taxes on people that run large corporations and their profits they will raise the cost of doing business and that gets passed on to the consumer, it all goes down hill. .

If consumers would accept a higher price, why wouldn’t the company already be charging a hire price?

24 francis  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 4:35:44pm

re: #20 klys

The best plan is Medicare, it goes where ever you go, it is accepted in most places, it gives doctors flexibility, you can choose your own doctors, and they deduct apx 150.00 from your s/s check. The down side is you have to carry a supplemental plan for major hospital stays and a prescription plan that cost apx 3600.00 a year. On a low fixed income you will probably go on Medicaid. I hope the don’t continue to cut doctor fees as scheduled or it will wind up being cash and carry.

25 francis  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 4:38:25pm

re: #23 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Companies charge what the traffic will bear. Did you ever wonder why some Walmarts are more expensive than others?

26 klys  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 4:44:18pm

re: #24 francis

The best plan is Medicare, it goes where ever you go, it is accepted in most places, it gives doctors flexibility, you can choose your own doctors, and they deduct apx 150.00 from your s/s check. The down side is you have to carry a supplemental plan for major hospital stays and a prescription plan that cost apx 3600.00 a year. On a low fixed income you will probably go on Medicaid. I hope the don’t continue to cut doctor fees as scheduled or it will wind up being cash and carry.

annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd you have to be at least 65 to take advantage of it. Thanks for playing.

I would like my dad to be able to retire and take care of himself before he has the heart attacks his dad did, ok? That would be cheaper all around.

Not to mention if my husband waits until I am eligible for Medicare, well, those medical issues I mentioned will be a reality.

27 klys  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 4:45:58pm

re: #24 francis

The best plan is Medicare, it goes where ever you go, it is accepted in most places, it gives doctors flexibility, you can choose your own doctors, and they deduct apx 150.00 from your s/s check. The down side is you have to carry a supplemental plan for major hospital stays and a prescription plan that cost apx 3600.00 a year. On a low fixed income you will probably go on Medicaid. I hope the don’t continue to cut doctor fees as scheduled or it will wind up being cash and carry.

Also, if Medicare is so fantastic, why is there so much opposition to single payer? Clearly government run healthcare isn’t a horrible as it’s made out to be.

28 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Sep 2, 2013 7:19:36pm

re: #25 francis

Companies charge what the traffic will bear. Did you ever wonder why some Walmarts are more expensive than others?

Exactly. They’ll charge what the traffic will bear. So a rise in the company’s costs would not change what traffic would bear.

So, you kind of just disproved yourself there, champ.

29 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 4:54:52am

re: #11 francis

Has someone pissed on your Rug?

That rug tied the room together.


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